Where are your best new leads coming from? What’s your go-to source for the best candidates who will make the best franchisees?
Franchise Development Marketing is the focus on today’s show with some of my favorite franchise brand leaders recorded LIVE at Franchise Expo West in LA. You’ll hear from:
Robert Bhagwandat, Checkers & Rally’s
Megan Birkey, McDonald’s
Mark Treptow, Gong Cha
Jimmy Weeks, Internet Strategy Labs
Matt Sawicki, Black Sheep Coffee
Carlo Verdugo, Juice It Up!
Plus, Michael Seid of MSA discusses several hot Franchising topics for this fall and Kim Gusman of CEA / California Employers Association shares why California is still a great place to develop franchises!
Thanks to Northeast Color, Hughes, Citrin Cooperman, and Thunderly.
Transcript for Franchise Marketing Sources: Live at Franchise Expo West
AI was not used in the creation of this podcast. This is the Social Geek Radio Network.
Hello, geeks, and welcome to the Social Geek Podcast. I’m Jack Monson, your host and marketing Consigliere. Today, we’re hearing from franchise brand leaders live in Los Angeles, recorded at the 2025 Franchise Expo West.
All right, today’s show is brought to you by Northeast Color, Hughes, Citrin Cooperman, and Thunderly. Imagine starting 2026 with a refreshed Frandev website. Imagine converting 7% of your Frandev website traffic into leads.
That’s three times greater than the industry average. This fall, it’s time to electrify your franchise development marketing. Visit thunderlymarketing.com.
We’re at the Los Angeles Convention Center, Franchise Expo West once again. Chatting now with my friend, Robert Bhagwandat. How are you doing, Robert?
I’m doing fantastic. It’s always great to have an opportunity to come out to the West Coast and be in Los Angeles. Business is always on a boom on the West Coast, so it’s always an exciting time to be here.
Yeah, you are here representing Checkers & Rallys, and you guys have been busy all morning, it looks like.”
“We have been. In a lot of ways, we got a lot of people that are interested in this brand, but one of the things that franchise brands always need to understand and figure out is you got to have the right people for the brand as well, too. If this thing is going to grow the way you want it to.
Yeah, not just sales, but people who will be successful franchisees.
Absolutely.
I think that’s our goal here. So tell me how you’re finding those folks these days. I know it’s probably changed a lot even in the past few years.
Where are you really getting your best source for great new franchisees?
That’s a fantastic question. Our CEO asked us that same question too.
I’ll bet he does.
It’s a good combination of many different tactics. I’m not going to say that one is a silver bullet. You’ve got opportunities from paid leads, you’ve got opportunities from referrals, you’ve got opportunities from people just organically interested.”
“But if I had to rely on one avenue the most right now today, it would be the referrals from our franchisees.
Nice.
Those are always the most consistent, the most solid ones, the ones that we trust the most. To be able to get from point A in a process to point Z of opening a restaurant. So the referrals, we heavily lean on that, we incentivize our franchisees through our internal referral program.
But that’s our best source today as far as really finding those qualified people that we’re looking for to come into our family.
And I think that says a lot about your franchisees and your entire franchise system, that you’re relying on those folks to bring you good qualified candidates. There are a lot of systems out there who let’s just say, you might not really want the input from some of the franchisees.
That is a true statement. And you know, the way that we’ve kind of helped our franchisees understand the benefit of this, it’s we’re going to grow one way or the other. And we want to partner with our existing franchisees to grow.”
“There’s certain markets that they’re just way too big for them to take on on their own. So, if you’ve got an opportunity to choose who your neighbor is going to be, take that opportunity. Because if I find your neighbor, you might not like your neighbor.
Do you have any specific places where you’re looking to grow the brand, maybe in 2026, as we look at the map?
Yeah, when we really kind of hone in on the maps as far as where the biggest opportunities for us are, and I’ll narrow this down a little bit, but we really concentrate on the population centers, where we can identify at least 50,000 people per restaurant. But the areas that have really kind of honed in on the map for us right now, it’ll probably be more the mid-Atlantic region when you’re looking at the DC, Baltimore areas, Philadelphia, Central New Jersey, and the Long Island, New York areas on the East Coast. On the West Coast, surprisingly, a lot of people would say Los Angeles, you know, that’s the population center.”
“But where we’re finding the best results overall, it’s really the Central Valley, Fresno, Sacramento, Stockton, anything up and down the 99 corridor. That’s where we really see the opportunities hopping on the West Coast outside of the Phoenix region. So we’re really excited about what we’re seeing from those areas.
Checkers & Rally’s are those types of brands, I’m guessing, where when you say where you work and you talk about your company, a lot of people probably have a good heartwarming story from their childhood or, you know, my grandfather used to take me there or we used to go there when I was in college or something like that. Do you hear stories like that a lot?
All the time, all the time, and quite honestly, many of the people who are coming into our brand, they mentioned those stories.
Yeah.”
“I remember when I was in college or my mom and dad took me to Disney World when I was a kid and we sat down on the patio, we had these great French fries and these milkshakes and I remembered that and it’s great to see their point of view that the brand still has those fundamental values and those foundational pieces still there. And that’s really a nuance to them that really made it exciting for them to say, wow, after all these years, the staying power of these products, there has to be something going on well here that triggers their interest to want to learn more.
Yeah. And they know exactly what it is when they hear the name. Correct.
I’ll give you my story really quick. Anytime I see Checkers logo, I think of when I was in my 20s and I was in downtown Chicago, there was a Checkers on the corner of Chicago Avenue and Well Street.
Okay.”
“And it was the only restaurant in the neighborhood where I worked that really was an affordable lunch, right? So it was good food that we could actually afford to eat at the time because most of the other restaurants in that neighborhood were a little out of my budget, as we would say.
As many have gotten that way today, too. We have all seen it. I mean, it’s hard to get a good affordable meal today.
Yeah.
So Robert, if anybody would like to have a conversation with you about an opportunity with Checkers & Rally, where can we send them?
Sure. So the easiest place to get ahold of us is absolutely at our website, checkersfranchising.com. There’s tons of information that’s on that website.
You’ll also find the entire team’s contact information. So whether you’d like to speak to somebody about the franchise disclosure document and all the fundamentals about the business, or if you’d like to speak to somebody about real estate or cost of construction, you have access to all of our folks on there. We have nothing to hide.”
“We are fully transparent. We want to make sure people are armed with the proper information so they can make the right decisions for their family.
That is the way to be and the way to be responsible. We love to see that. Robert, thank you so much for stopping by today.
Have a great rest of the show here at Franchise Expo West.
Thank you so much for having us, Jack.
There are so many people who, when I say franchising, they say, you mean like McDonald’s? And so I’m really thrilled to have someone actually from McDonald’s with us here today at Franchise Expo West in Los Angeles. Megan Birkey is from McDonald’s, and she joins us on the podcast now.
Megan, how are you?
Hi, Jack, I’m good. Thanks for having me here today.
Tell me about your role at McDonald’s.
Yeah, I’d love to. So I’m part of the US franchising team, more specifically the sourcing and recruitment arm of that team. So I’m a franchising candidate manager.”
“And what that means is I’m out here spreading the word that McDonald’s is looking for new franchisees. So that’s part of my job. And the other part of my job is I get to talk to individuals who are pursuing the possibility of becoming a McDonald’s franchisee.
Tell me about those people. Are they mostly multi-unit owners? Are they individual store owner operators?
Who are you talking to the most these days?
Yeah, good question. So, our franchisees come from all different walks of life, all different backgrounds. What we’re really looking for are certain competencies.
So, people who are individuals who have a level of financial acumen, individuals who have experience leading, inspiring, managing teams. And from there, we can train the rest. There’s no need to have QSR experience.
We can train the breast. We have a pretty rigorous training program. The other pieces we’re looking for are a certain capital investment.
So, our investment is a $750,000 minimum investment. Okay. We do have a full-time best effort requirement.”
“So, it’s not a passive investment opportunity. We have owner operators. And then the other piece is someone needs to have an appetite for relocation if they want to be a McDonald’s franchisee.
Yeah, because the territory in their neighborhood is probably already taken.
It might not be for sale. Yeah. So, that’s who we’re looking for.
But you still have a lot of available territories across the country, I would assume. Is that correct?
There’s always a variety of restaurants available in different areas of the country. You know, you may have seen in the news that there’s a lot of new construction going on. So, you might see, you know, operators who are wanting to get into new construction.
So, perhaps they’re selling at some of their existing restaurants. You might see operators who are retiring and they’re deciding to sell their restaurants for that reason. Or they might be relocating within the McDonald system.”
“So, maybe they bought restaurants, you know, somewhere cool, like the Midwest, where you and I are both from. And they decide that they want to sell those restaurants and move somewhere with better weather. And they buy restaurants in, you know, somewhere like Florida or Texas.
Yeah, it’s also an interesting way for people who, oh, I don’t know, from states like Illinois, where people want to perhaps make an exodus someday. But it’s a great way to go to another part of the country if you’re looking to make a big change in your life.
Absolutely, absolutely. And where you start in the McDonald system is not always where you end. So, you might have an opportunity to get in the door somewhere.
And if you take it, you would have the opportunity to perhaps relocate and buy restaurants in a new area of the country.
Very good, very good. So, tell me how you’re finding these people who would be a successful franchisee. Where are they?
Are they online? Are they at shows like this? Are they out somewhere where you’re finding these folks?”
“We’re doing a little bit of everything right now, to be honest with you. And in-person events like today, we’re also trying some new things online. So, some different things through social media, through paid advertising, and through word of mouth.
So, doing everything we can just to make it known that our doors are open and we’re looking for new franchisees.
Very good. If someone would like to talk to you about an opportunity with McDonald’s, where can we send them?
Great question. So, they can go to mcdonalds.com. And from there, there will be a franchising page that they can go out to.
Okay. There will be different information provided on there regarding our requirements, our training program, and then links to start the application process as well. Right.
Very good. Megan, thank you so much for joining us today. Have a great rest of the show here at Franchise Expo West.
Thanks for having me.
Chatting now with Mark Treptow from Gong Cha. I love the name of the brand, Mark. Tell me more about it.”
“Yeah.
Thank you, Jack. We started out in Taiwan. We had a founder, his name is actually Super Wu.
That’s his actual name. A bit of a tea enthusiast started playing around with teas, and boba, and different things. By 2006, we became a branded concept.
We entered this US market in 2014. We’re currently in about 30 global markets with about 2,200 locations.
Wow. What does that look like here in the Americas? How many locations here?
In the Americas, we’ve got about 100 in Canada, almost 200 in Mexico, 240 here in the United States.
Wow. 200 in Mexico, I would not have guessed that, or over 100 in Canada. That’s amazing.
Mexico is interesting because they haven’t really known boba or bubble tea. There’s a bit of an educational curve. Tea is the number two most consumed beverage in the world, but depends on what culture you’re in.”
“Right.
Tell me a bit more about the setup for your locations. I’m assuming it’s not like a full restaurant where you need a couple of dozen people, and lots of gear, and equipment, and pizza ovens, and things like that, right?
No. It’s interesting. People ask about the back of the house, and I chuckle and say, we boil water.
We take a whole leaf premium tea, we pitch it into a pot of boiling water that’s steeped at the proper time and temperature. If you peel back the curtain further, there’s no hooding, no grills, no ventilation, no grease traps, minimal refrigeration in the front of the house. Your refrigerator at home is about the capacity that we have under the counter.
Our product is very shelf stable and ambient, so it’s super simple. Great.
So how are you finding your great successful franchisees these days? Is it through advertising? Is it through events like this, other methods?
Where are you finding your best candidates?
Yeah, it’s interesting. It’s a mix, and it’s always something that I’m pursuing heavily. I’m a fan of directly reaching out on LinkedIn.”
“I had a lot of success with that. Just being genuine and sincere, and if people are interested and they’ll tell you, if they’re not, they’ll tell you, and you got to respect that. We do attend these trade shows.
We do a couple of trade shows a year. We do a lot of press. We’re always in the news with something, so that helps.
We are doing some targeted LinkedIn advertising as well. We’re doing some targeted Google Performance Macs, but that’s about it. There’s no substitute for direct outreach.
We’re really looking at multi-unit, even multi-brand franchisees that are running out of white space, so most of us know who most of those people are.
Yeah, and if you don’t know all of them, I think you’re in the right spaces right now, especially LinkedIn. You know, the multi-unit guys are on LinkedIn all day, almost as much as I am.
Yeah, I find them to be very active.
Yeah, very good. So if someone would like to have a conversation with you about the opportunity, where should we send them?”
“nyone can find me directly on LinkedIn, but we have a website at skonchausofficial.com. Is it okay that I say that?
Absolutely, yeah, and we’ll have a link to that in today’s show notes, too.
Please, yeah, we have a Franchise landing page there that gives you an about, a history, a couple of videos. I think it’s pretty good. There’s a lot of stuff that goes into this brand, so start there and then reach out to me directly for sure.
Happy to always talk and figure out together if it makes sense to take a closer look at Garment Top.
All right, very good, Mark. Thank you so much for dropping by today, and have a great rest of the show here at Franchise Expo West.
Thank you, Jack, I appreciate you having me on.
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You know, it wouldn’t be a trip to Southern California without a stop to see my old pal Jimmy Weeks. What’s going on, Matt?
And maybe a franchise show to boot.
And a franchise show. We are in the Franchise Expo West in lovely downtown Los Angeles today.
Yes.
Thanks for the great weather, Jimmy. We appreciate it.
You’re welcome. I made a lot of calls and a lot of effort, but I’m glad you’re here.”
“So my favorite question of this season, this podcast season at all of your shows is, I’m asking everybody, where are the best leads coming from right now? I know you work with a ton of franchise brands, and you have a unique insight into where their leads are coming from because they all show up on your dashboard.
You bet.
Where are you seeing the most success right now for most brands?
Yeah. So because we link up into the CRM, we’re able to pull in leads that come in from the website, obviously, and we can see them tagged as paid campaigns. Then we also connect to the CRM, so we can see broker leads that come in, portal leads that come in, and people do online Facebook form fills, people do LinkedIn form fills.”
“So when you can see all those coming into the CRM, and then you’re using booking rates, and kept appointment rates, and franchise application rates, you can kind of move the needle as to what you’re measuring, instead of like a cost per lead, or some less meaningful metric, you’re able to look at what the booked appointment rate is, and if you have four portals coming in, and you look at the booking rate, and then the kept appointment rate for those four portals, then things kind of start becoming really interesting, and then you can drill in, and your recruiting people can look at those as well, and they can start moving the needle. What do you fuel, and what do you starve?
What do you see that’s really kind of standing out to you right now? Any surprises or any trends that is really working for a lot of brands right now?
Without giving the secret sauce?
No, you gotta give the secret sauce, Matt.”
“I will tell you, BizBuySell has been consistently over many, many years. I was just talking with somebody else earlier, that 12 years ago, and all of the portals have different types. Like, do they go right into the CRM, or do they push leads to the website and then have that filter?
Direct leads into the CRM from BizBuySell is one of those shining things that we’ve seen year over year. It’s really awesome. There’s also some really neat things that are happening.
We see some really good success with some Facebook form fills, which you and I, 10 years ago, we were like, it’s kind of scary because 10 years ago, you didn’t have to verify a phone number, you didn’t have to verify an email, so you could say, I’m Johnny Cash, I’m interested in a franchise. Well, now, because of all of the restraints, two-factor authentication, Facebook form fills are kind of shining right now, and when you can pull in a lookalike audience that you have curated, then things get even more exciting there.
Really interesting. Anything else you’re working on this fall that you want to share with us”
“I think everybody’s loving AI, and we’re just trying to get people to understand, get your BI organized first.
Amen.
Amen.
Yeah. We keep saying that it doesn’t really matter what you’re doing with AI, it matters what your candidates and your customers are doing with AI. That’s all I care about.
Yeah. So, I love doing that.
Do you have any insights into where AI is getting their data?
Yeah. We’ve been doing some research on that and there are some surprising places that AI is pulling a lot of data right now, including Reddit and some other sites that maybe aren’t your favorite sites like Wikipedia. Okay.
But it’s real.
Yeah.
There are a lot of people on those pages and there are a lot of AI agents and LLMs that are working with those pages too. So, if you’re not on those pages and you’re not on, you don’t have your website where it should be, I think that’s probably the best advice we can give people right now is get your BI together.”
“That’s right. AI, yes, but BI first.
Yeah, very good. Jimmy, if anybody would like to connect with you and maybe learn a little bit more about your company, where can we send them?
Sure. internetstrategylabs.com is a great place to find us.
All right, very good. Easy enough. Last question before we go, tell me about what’s going on with VetFran.
I know you are one of the torch bearers of VetFran and you’ve been helping that organization move along for a lot of years now. Anything new and exciting there that we can talk about?
Well, I don’t know about new and exciting, but for the last year, we’ve been doing some Franchise 101 and Franchise 102 webinars, and we’ve been taking that out on the road. Advocacy is coming up in just a couple short weeks. There’s some really interesting stuff in the state of California.
We have one of our clients, Franchise brand, was invited to Sacramento to sit on the General License Board. So any franchise that wants to do business in California, you need to have like a C Contractors license. It’s really challenging, and you have to have four years’ experience in that field.”
“What we’re working on right now through some brands is going up on the hill and saying, hey, veterans, maybe they don’t need a four-year experience, and maybe they have an increased bond. And there’s some really smart people, some brands, going up on the hill this year to try to get that four-year requirement abolished so franchise brands can grow in California a lot more.
Yeah, we can fast track those folks.
Yes, sir.
And to live in the American dream. That sounds great. Please keep us updated on that.
And if I don’t see you again before then, I will see you on Capitol Hill in DC.
All right. Sounds great, Jack. Thank you very much.
Back in the exhibit hall at Franchise Expo West, chatting now with Matt Sawicki from Black Sheep Coffee. What’s going on, Matt?
What’s going on, Jack? How are you today?
I’m doing great. How’s the show been for you so far?
You know, actually, really impressed.
Yeah.”
“I came out here, I wasn’t knowing what to expect in this show in California, and it blew my socks off yesterday.
Yeah, it’s been busy nonstop. And you know, I always say, and in this case, I was totally wrong. I always say, you know, in California, especially LA, around two o’clock or so, everybody disappears because nobody wants to get stuck in LA traffic.
That didn’t happen yesterday.
It didn’t. We shut down at four and I was still at the booth talking to people until about 4.35 o’clock. Nice.
It’s been a great show so far. I’m really surprised and happy.
So I think a lot of people are excited about owning a business, even here in California. Don’t believe the rumors. But I would also say you’ve got something pretty unique going on with a coffee franchise.
Tell me about that.
I do. And I should say we do. It’s Black Sheep Coffee.
We’re founded in London. Our co-founders moved to Miami and wanted to penetrate the US market. And so we’re about 120 shops open globally.
Four here in the US., three in Texas. Miami just opened up about two weeks ago.”
“Absolutely just a phenomenal brand. It’s, you know, we’re changing the coffee industry and the game, how it’s played and how it’s done. And most brands do Arabica beans.
Black Sheep Coffee focuses on 100% specially-grated Robusta beans. And that means you’re getting twice the caffeine content, lower acidity, more flavor. It punches through the milk.
And so when you’re having a latte, you can actually taste the coffee with your milk and sugar versus just having milk and sugar.
So it’s very different than the convention center coffee that we’re used to at these shows.
I’m embarrassed to say I have a cup of it right here in front of me.
Yeah, yeah.
That’s awesome. So, you know, a little bit of a differentiation there with the product. And tell me about the Franchise opportunity.
How do you guys stand out in, you know, what’s getting to be kind of a crowded coffee market?
Yeah, you know, it’s such as you say that a lot of people always look at coffee and they’re like, oh, it’s an oversaturated market. And yet coffee is more is more highly consumed than even water in the United States.
Yeah, yeah.”
“And so it’s always growing. It’s always evolving. There are mom and pops.
There are retired brands that are going to, you know, kind of go under. They just they don’t have a way to compete. And when you have a brand that can change the game, and provide a better product, a better service, and even offer, have more offerings, more food options, more choices, and a place to hang out.
All of our shops, you know, they’re about 1500 to 2500 square foot. They’re like an oasis for people to come in, do schoolwork, do business, have meetings, and enjoy a great cup of coffee. And so when you go into market with something like that, you’re going to just start taking Market Share from other brands.
And you look at the big boys out there, and I won’t mention their names, but we all know who they are. Every shop that opens up takes away from them, and people are just craving something different. And so as soon as you have something that is as unique as Black Sheep, you’re seeing it.”
“You’re seeing people leave in droves from the previous brands and come over to us. And so it’s been a really big success here in the US. And so what we’re doing is we’re looking for those that are looking to get in a new business.
They’re looking to grow. They want to do some business. I call it corporate refugees.
They want to lead their day 9 to 5. They want to get into franchising. And so we’re asking people to come in.
And the early people that come on, we’re asking to do five shops plus. We’ll work through that with you and what that looks like. But what it does is it helps cement our footprints in markets.
And right now, in the last 12 months, we’ve got about 130 units sold in the US. We’ve sold out big territories like Houston Market. It’s a large development agreement over the next 20 years.
We’ll open a couple more shops this year. By the end of next year, we’ll have 20, 25 shops open. And that’s just in Texas and Florida.”
“And so now what we’re doing is we’re looking for the sun belt. Everything from California to Florida, that’s our first growth market we want to go, and then we’ll expand north in the US. So if you’re looking to get out of the 9 to 5, you’re looking to own a business that you want to work on but not work in, that’s what we’re looking for.
We’re looking for people that are really hungry for that. Minimum five stores, we ask for a liquidity requirement. We want people to be right around a million dollars in liquidity, and that’s checking, savings, 401Ks, home equity, stuff like that.
You don’t have to spend it all up front. What we’re asking is that you just have that so we know that you can build out shops and you don’t run into overages and issues, etc.
And a lot more affordable than a lot of food concepts.
It is. It’s on par with the coffee industry. According to our item 7 on the FDD, we have a range of 730 to 1.4.”
“I’ll tell you as we continue to open shops, we fine tune that and the average is about a million all in from franchise fees to build out to FF&E and work in capital, etc.
Great. It sounds like you found some good franchise owners, especially in Texas and Florida so far. Where are you finding these good candidates right now?
What are your best lead sources?
Twofold is, I always like to say this and joke a little bit, is some of the best lead sources are just your relationships.
Yeah.
Two of our good franchisees that are on board, our Houston franchisee and our Florida franchisees are good buddies of mine that I’ve worked with for years. All of our other franchisees have seen it. Even in the show, people walk by and they see our logo and instantly, it’s an eye catcher and they’re like, whoa, Black Sheep, and I can relate.
You know, I’m different in my family or people don’t like me or I don’t want to do everything that everyone else is doing. And so people relate that and that just draws their attention.”
“Excellent. If anyone would like to have that conversation with you about an opportunity, where can we send them?
Yeah, best place to go is just to our US website, which is just www.blacksheepcoffee.us. Be very clear on this, .us, because I do a.com all the time, but it’s actually.us. And go out there and there’s a Franchising landing page.
Tell out the information. That will come right to me. And I’ll reach out with a phone call and some emails, and just kind of start talking Franchising.
All right. Very good. Matt, thanks for stopping by today, and good luck at the rest of the show this weekend.
Thanks, Jack. Appreciate you.
We are back in the exhibit hall at Franchise Expo West, chatting with Carlo Verdugo from Juice It Up. Hey Carlo, what’s up?
You know, it’s a great day. Sun’s out in LA and, you know, we got a lot of traffic today.
Yeah, it’s been a little busy over there at the Juice It Up booth. You guys seem like you’ve been talking to a lot of people interested in maybe owning their own business.”
“Yeah, absolutely. A lot of interest today. We’re just grateful to be here.
Very good. So tell me about the brand. What do you guys do?
Yeah, so Juice It Up, we’ve been a brand now that’s been around for just over 30 years.
Wow.
We’ve got 98 stores that are currently open. We have another 30 that are in development across the Western US. So we’re starting to expand and we’ve been picking up year after year since the pandemic in 2020.
So really, right now is the perfect time for a company that focuses and really has a pinpoint on better for you items, health and wellness. We are all about fruits and vegetables and folks that are looking for something a little bit better to put in their body and to feel a little bit better throughout the day and throughout their life. You know, we’re the place for them to go.”
“Yeah, it feels like America is perhaps turning the corner on getting a little healthier, at least in some parts of the country. And I think that could be part of your growth as well, is not just for consumers, but business owners wanting to be a part of that healthier business opportunity.
Yeah, that’s definitely spot on. You know, we’ve seen over the last four years since the pandemic, you know, our industry, and I’m not going to say it’s just us. I mean, I’d say we lead the industry within our segment.
But this, you know, just the health and wellness, smoothies, juices and bowls has grown year over year, where a lot of folks say, okay, the new up is flat. Well, you know, not for us. We continue to grow transactions year over year in sales.
And I think that’s a good indicator of the business, is that the transactions are growing year over year. You’re doing the right things. And that’s what we’ve seen.
Where are you finding your best new franchise owners these days? Is it word of mouth? Is it through advertising?”
“Where are you really connecting with those people who make great franchisees?
Yeah, you know, that’s a great question. I think if you look at a lot of different franchise brands, they go after and do, you know, social media. They’ll do some things in publications, expos like this.
You know, where we’re getting, I think, our strongest, best franchisees are folks that are customers. They know the brand, they’re advocates of the brand. Now, every customer is not going to make a great franchisee, but a lot of them will.
They understand the brand, they’re passionate, they have loyalty, and they want to grow that and give back to the communities where they serve. And those are, I think, probably some of the best new franchisees that we have. But other places would be existing franchisees that already own multi-units, multiple brands that are looking to diversify, that may not already have a better for you concept within their portfolio, especially smoothies, juices, and bowls, right?”
“We’re a great option for them to now diversify and to get into markets that, quite frankly, aren’t open for some of our competitors, because they’re already saturated in a lot of these states outside the West Coast. And we have an opportunity to go in with some larger franchisees to build territories where they already have existing other brands.
That’s interesting. For the multi-brand people, is it other food or similar type brands that they own? Or do you see people coming in from all other types of businesses and maybe they’re diversifying a bit?
Yeah, definitely diversifying. In fact, we see non-competing franchise offerings on the multi-brand side, but not just in the food industry, definitely in the service industry, in the home industry. We also have folks that, you know, they may be diversifying from like a commercial real estate landlord type of relationship and other type of things that they may be doing.”
“And so, you know, we have a lot of business owners that come to us just from a lot of walks of life that have a passion for fruits and vegetables, the brand, you know, really getting involved in communities and giving something good back.
I could see maybe some fitness franchise owners or other people who are involved in some sort of other types of wellness businesses may be being interested in this too.
Yeah, absolutely. In fact, we actually have existing franchisees that also are franchisees in the fitness side.
Great.
Boutique and big box.
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. If somebody would like to have a conversation with you about the business opportunity, where can we send them?
Absolutely, thank you. So, the best place to get a hold of us is our website, which is juiceitup.com. Click on Franchising and you’ll be able to give us a call directly and or send us an email and we’ll get back to you as soon as possible.
All right, very good. Carlo, thanks for stopping by today. Good luck for the rest of the show.
Appreciate it. Thank you.”
“Back in the Exhibit Hall of Franchise Expo West, talking to the MS in MSA. It’s Michael Seid. What’s going on, Michael?
What’s up, my friend? What’s going on? We’re sitting in lovely Los Angeles.
Yes.
We are at a relatively small show with a fairly decent amount of traffic.
Yeah, there’s a lot of people here. It’s not the biggest room we’ve ever been in, but it’s certainly one of the busier rooms. I think a lot of franchisers are having some good conversations here.
What are the people talking to you most about?
Besides some crazy questions that you get off and on, what kind of conversations are you having with the crowd in the next show like this?
We have a lot of conversations with people that are thinking about franchising their business.
Oh, I got it. So they’re not looking for a franchise. They’re thinking about franchising their own idea.
Yeah. I mean, they’ll come to us. Some people have come to us, and they’re interested in franchising.
I’ll give them a lot of advice on where to get information. I’ll give them advice on where to stay away from. Yeah.”
“But we’ve had a couple of long conversations with people out here who have capital, but they’ve never… they’re confused by what franchising is. Like, they’ll come to me and they say, I’m thinking about buying a license, but somebody told me I should actually consider buying a franchise.
And you get into that whole conversation, and with one of them, I said to him, it’s not complicated, but you’ve got to understand that every franchise has a license. So you’re starting to explain to them about the California law, the federal law. A lot of people are confused on what they’re looking at, and they’re not even certain about how to do a reasonably good job of a due diligence.
Because since both of us know you walk around the floor, we’re not going to see some of these concepts next year.
Oh, right. We won’t see them at the next show in three months.
Yeah.
Is it more complicated to the fact that we’re in California, some of the issues that some of the people might have when it comes to licensing versus Franchising?”
“think part of it is because if you’re sitting with somebody in Nebraska, we can talk about the federal rule, what it defines. Yeah.
When you’re sitting out in California, now you’re going to start talking about what the definition is under CFIL. I don’t think it’s confusing. I think that people are on…
A couple of people stop by and they say, I said, you’re looking to franchise your business. And he says, no, I’m unemployed. I’m looking for something.
And we were directing him there. Somebody came by and he says, I’d like to get a McDonald’s. I said, well, if you’re unemployed, you have to equal to a million dollars.
And you want to move to this.
They’re more confused about how to select a franchise.
They don’t realize that this is just a minor portion of the franchise offers.
So telling them to look online, social media, the IFA, looking at franchise update conference is very surprising. Also, a lot of them that, the franchisees that have come by, the both of them have chatted with me, a lot of them don’t realize that most franchises are looking for multi-unit.
Yeah, yeah.”
“And they’re looking to buy a job.
They’re looking to buy one, and they also don’t realize that when they buy a franchise or they invest in a franchise, they’re not going to buy one.
When they’re investing in a franchise, it’s not like the job opens tomorrow. You know, I said to one, you’ll be open in about 18 months. And he looked at me and I said, why will it take so long?
And you’ll be making money long after that.
Yeah, I said, it’s going to take you a while to make a decision on which franchise, and then you got to build it out, or you want to buy one. It doesn’t like it exists, and it’s ready for you unless you’re buying an existing business. So they’re a little confused.”
“I think we could do a better job in franchising and educating them. I mean, we’re also going through a transition of what’s going to take place in the California global market with the new law that’s there, whether it gets funded and put into place. So I think that the education that’s now come out of the third party seller is going to be important for them as well.
There’s a lot of, you and I had this chat yesterday, there were some really horrendous third party sellers that we were both born away from, but there were really some very good ones.
Of course.
And those are the ones that need to educate and make sure that they’re not making investment based upon what they like, but really based upon what’s going to make their family money.
Yeah, you mentioned the multi-unit situation and how so many brands are moving to that.”
“I think to me that’s the biggest trend over the past couple of years, is brands that never really considered multi-unit, and even some brands that said, no, we only want owner operators, are now looking at that as that’s the only way they’re going to grow.
But a lot of the folks, you know, we’re strategists, a lot of the folks who have come to us who are existing franchisers and have a multi-unit offering, and they’re trapped in this old world paradigm that there’s a single unit and a multi-unit, and the difference between single and multi is we’ll reduce the initial franchise fee.
Yeah.
Today, we’re dealing in different classes of franchisees. You have the de novo franchisee who’s never been in business. You have the strategic franchisee who owns a franchise and other brands and wants to be a multiple.
We’re all looking for him or her as a target.
Yeah.”
“Then you have the private equity franchisees who need a management company. Well, the smart franchisers have different royalty rates for them, have different obligations. They require some of those franchisees have trainers and general managers, and they can offer a different franchise offering, but they don’t understand how.
So I think we’re in a marketplace which is shifting. People are starting to learn that the person that owns five of this and five of that, and wants to buy five more of yours, doesn’t want the same deal as the guy who’s buying one.
Yeah.
Nor does he bring to the table the same, the single unit guy needs more handholding.
Yeah.
The guy who owns ten of something else understands real estate.
Right.
I don’t have to hold his hands as much.
And if I own ten of something else, the next ten I buy, I want a better deal than the first ten that I buy.
Also, you’re taking a bigger risk.”
“Yeah.
And what’s beneficial is they have all these connections in real estate if you have them down. So if they’re in the pizza business, and they need 1200 square feet of the pizza business, and your concept is 1200 feet, if they’ve been shown a location they can’t use because of the competition in that center, they can pivot to the other brand. So that’s when Multi Unit comes in, and both of us know a lot of these folks in Multi Unit.
We both go to the Multi Unit conferences, and they’re very sharp. They’re looking not only to look at the numbers of the bottom line, they’re looking at how they can leverage their infrastructure. So Franchise is always today going after Multi Unit.
If they can focus in on how to leverage somebody else’s infrastructure, they make the conversation go a lot faster.”
“Yeah, I think you’re right that so many of them just say, now we’re going after Multi Unit. Well, have you changed your own structure and the deals that you’re going to offer, and maybe even internally the people who are having those conversations, because you might want to think about stepping up your game when it comes to those people, not just having your same team selling to Multi Unit folks.
Yeah, and it’s not a generic Multi Unit. Yeah, that’s the other part. And you got to do a due diligence on it, because some of these guys own Multi Unit, some of the guys and women own Multi Unit, but they run bad at Multi Unit.
I mean, there are some great brands that really do a good due diligence on Multi Unit cons. They go in and they visit how they’re treating the other brand. But you also today are able with AI to start dealing with hyper-localization of your offerings.”
“You used to run these little tiny ads in the back of Wall Street Journal because you could get the source of lead on it.
Yeah.
Now, I can take somebody, if I understand who I’m competing with, the franchisees. I can now take my profile of franchisee, determine which franchisers have the same similar concept, dump it into an AI program, and now all of a sudden, I have the name and address of Multi Unit franchisees in the targeted area I want with the competition I want. I’ve now cut my cost of lead generation by 100%.
Right.
Not advertising to people who will never ever be a Multi Unit.
No. We have a client of ours who actually, they’re in the swimming business, and they send out a box. And basically, the concept of theirs is all we need is water in the box.”
“They’ve identified that in that market, in that market, there’s a need for the service, and here’s the franchisee that’s using that similar type of real estate at that similar type of investment. And they haven’t spent three days at a show like this talking to people.
Talking to people who will never get it.
Yeah. We’re in a different… Technology is changing how we’re looking at things and how we’re evaluating.
I mean, no disrespect to President Trump. We’re never going to take over Canada. But if you’re doing the United States and you think that Toronto and Vancouver are a foreign country, they’re not.
You know, if you’re in New York State and you’re not playing around with going into Toronto, you know, somebody gave you some bad advice. Right. So, it’s how we’re structuring today.”
“We spend a lot of time in doing vicarious liability audits on manuals and training programs to stay away from joint employment and all that. And we’re going to be down in DC. I don’t know if you’re going to join us.
Lobbying on Capitol Hill on Matt Haller and the joint employment stuff. And we’re still going to be facing vicarious liability. I mean, we’re going to get rid of part of the problem, but not all of it.
So, how the people are looking at the brands and how they’re looking at expanding in franchisees. And I got to tell you, there’s brands that we’ve worked with that have five or six detailed pages of who they want as a franchisee. And they won’t vary from it, and they do incredibly well because they protect the brand.
Yeah, they know who not just will buy a franchise, but who will be a successful franchisee.
And I think that’s the biggest change that I see in marketing now versus even a few years ago, is it isn’t about who we can sell something to.
It’s who can be set up to be a successful owner.”
“We’ve honed in on five words, which we’ve actually trademarked. It’s consistent, sustainable replication, culture and communications. And we’ve left out, surprisingly, growth.
Because from us, growth is a byproduct of all of the others.
That’s what happens if you have those other five things.
Yeah. So communications, I mean, I learned communications from McDonald’s. There’s no organization, you can criticize McDonald’s in many ways.
But there’s no organization that has learned the craft of communications better. You could sit in a meeting with McDonald’s folks, the phone will ring. Somebody will knock on the door and say, Alex Jones from Poughkeepsie wants to talk to you.
He’s a single unit of Franchise in Poughkeepsie, and the guy will get up and talk to him because he’s important. The idea of communication, the idea of culture, we forget about Dave Thomas, who I wrote my first book with an old friend and a client. I asked him one time what was his biggest failure, and he gave me one word, he said England.”
“And I said, how can England be a failure? He said, I let them turn Wendy’s into a British version. He said, once I realized what, he said, we were Wendy’s.
Once we got back to our culture, we were very successful. So people tend to want to, we all use the term selling franchises. And years ago, we walked away from saying we should select franchisees.
Part of the beauty of what we do is if we do it right, is we select franchisees who buy into our culture. That doesn’t mean they have to agree with all our decisions, but we know that they’re going to take pride. So with a strategic franchisee that owns five of this or 10 of that, I like to walk into their brands and just see if they’re treating their own franchise or well.
Not whether they’re a bad franchisee and they’re complaining, but if they treat their own brand with success and with care, I know they’ll go with me and then I can have a conversation with the culture. Yeah.
They’re on the boat, right?”
“But the whole idea of sustainability, we have to make certain that the franchisee not only makes some money and gets a return on investment, but enough that they want to invest in number two and three and four. That’s the whole idea of sustainability. At the same time, you want to make certain that the franchisee is making money.
Because we’ve both seen a lot of franchisees that sold a lot of franchises, and all of a sudden the franchisee is going to Israel because, let’s go bring them back from a foreign country. You get the tiny old guys who sold 10,000 of these things and they’re out of business. There’s been so many of those things which we all worry about.
Very good. Anything else you are talking to your clients about for the rest of 2025 and maybe the first half of 2026? Anything they really need to be watching when it comes to anything from our friends at the government or anything else happening in franchises?”
“We’re spending a lot of time with our clients looking at re-franchising. And we’re looking at re-franchising to… I’m treating their franchise and company locations as inventory.
How do I… if I’m underperforming in one market, can I sell that off to a group of franchisees with a development schedule and then take that money and put it into markets where I’m underperforming and build it up? We’re looking a lot today at joint ventures and strategic alliances with franchisees because there are some really great operators, money, tons of money in the marketplace.
So we’re seeing how we position the money with good operators.
So a good operator in a strategic partnership with a franchisor can grow into a bigger operator.
So that’s what we’re looking at now. How do we, we’re looking at the better operators in the system and say how do we get them capital to grow? Maybe we’ll do a partnership with them.
Or we’re looking at the marketplace where there’s critical mass needs. How do we shift that around? And that’s the play.”
“We’re also converting a lot into this concept of classes of franchisees. Having a different offering for de novo versus a private equity.
Yeah, yeah.
Versus, that’s what we’re sitting down.
Yeah, I think that should be a standard at some point with most brands. That’s really interesting stuff. If anyone would like to have a further conversation with you about that, where can we send them?
Send them to msaworldwide.com or give me a call at the office at 860-523-4257.
Say hello to Irene, she’s a very nice lady. And we can go from there.
All right, very good. Michael, thanks for stopping by. We will see you next in DC and Atlanta and all points in between.
Thank you, sir. It’s been enjoyable.
Thank you.”
“Back at Franchise Expo West in the Los Angeles Convention Center for 2025. Chatting now with Kim Gusman. She’s with the California Employers Association.
Kim, welcome to the podcast.
Thank you so much. Happy to be here.
So tell me a bit about the California Employers Association and just what the heck are you doing in a franchise show?
Yes, this is our first time to be here. We are excited to be here. So we have been around since 1937 and we are a 501C6 not for profit trade association.
And what that means is we’ve got a mission statement and our mission is to provide employers with peace of mind when it comes to HR headaches, employee headaches, anything in the employee life cycle from hiring to firing. There’s a lot of employees in California. Those employees have a lot of rights.
And so we want to help employers stay compliant with all those California labor laws and stay out of court.
And California does have a few labor laws and a few regulations compared to the rest of the country, right?”
“That’s absolutely true. And not only are there a lot of labor code laws, but they change frequently. And so if you thought you knew them all last year, you probably don’t know the new ones this year.
Are you typically working with like the small business owner, in this case, the franchisees? Or are you working with the brand from sort of a corporate level or somewhere in between?
We work with one or the other usually. So we have some franchisers who will pay us to be a resource, an HR resource, like an HR outsourced group, for all their franchisees. So it might be a pizza chain, for example, that is saying, hey, we don’t want to have any bad news in the press.
We want to make sure our franchisees know what they’re doing and they have a resource that’s cheaper than calling a lawyer every time. So we have that kind of a relationship. But we also work one on one with thousands of employers all over California.”
“They might have 10 employees, 20 employees, 50 employees. What we generally find is that the people who come to us are not large enough yet to have an HR team of their own. So they don’t know all the ins and outs of the hiring and firing and all of the stuff in that employee life cycle.
So they just are calling us to get a sounding board, to get advice, to get resources, support, that kind of stuff.
And that really fits well with the franchise model because with very few exceptions, there are probably not even that many multi-unit owner groups that have their own HR department or their own internal resources. So even a pretty big, a big small business, if that makes sense, even a pretty big small business probably needs some outsourced help in this area.
Absolutely. And it was interesting. I just sat in a great session right before the one I gave today, which was called Top 10 Ways to Stay Out of Court.”
“And the gentleman there said 70% of franchisees are just one unit. So it’s very, very infrequent that they’re multi-unit. So yeah, we’re dealing one on one with those small business owners.
They, whatever it might be, it could be a dry cleaner, it could be a dog walking business, a tow company, a restaurant. Doesn’t matter.
I want to ask you about the ways to stay out of court. But before we get there, what are some of the biggest topics that you’re talking to small business owners about? Is it mostly like hiring practices, or are there other sort of hot topics right now that you’re spending most of your time on?
Probably the biggest, there’s two top ones and it’s usually after somebody’s hired. So there are a lot of rules around hiring, but that doesn’t seem to be too much of a problem. The problem is now you’ve got an employee, and there’s a lot of leave law issues in California.”
“I need to take leave because I’ve got a grandmother who’s sick, or I’m sick, or maybe my dog is sick. Do I have time off for that? Or my kid got suspended at school.
Can I leave and do I get paid to go to the principal’s office? What about jury duty? Do I get paid?
So a lot of leave law. And then the other biggie is wage and hour, breaks, lunches, over time. Over and over again, CAGA laws, which are class action lawsuits for wage and hour, that can really kill a franchisor if there’s a whole class action lawsuit.
So those are, I’d say, leave laws and wage and hour issues.
That makes a lot of sense to me. And as someone who likes to stay out of court as much as possible, give me some of your top ways to stay out of court these days.
I would say the biggest one is really having an employee handbook. And a lot of people think you have to have an employee handbook when you run a business, but you do not. It’s not the law.”
“But we would say absolutely have a good, strong employee handbook because it sets the tone. And then your employees know what’s expected of them. You know what, you know, it’s just keeps you on mutual ground.
I know what I want from you. You know what you get from me. We’re all on the same page here.
So it’s a bit of a Bible, if you will. Yeah.
And at some point, the thing that really is important to me as an employer was actually written down somewhere.
Right. Because I don’t remember. Right.
I have somebody go, hey, are we off on Labor Day? I don’t know. Let’s go look in the handbook together.
You said we were off on the Friday after Thanksgiving.”
“Right.
When did I say that?
Right. And did I say I’d pay you or did I say I’d just give you the day off?
Right. You’re off.
Yeah. Yeah.
Right.
So yeah, that employee handbook is crucial for you. But the funny thing is you don’t have to have one in California, but if you do have one, there are certain requirements that have to be in it. So there’s just all these little nuances.
If you can do HR in California, you can do it anywhere.
Yeah. I’ll bet. And they’re setting the standard for the rest of us.
Yes. Any other ways to stay out of court that you wanted to share today?
The other one I would say is hire slow, fire fast.
Ooh. Love that. Tell me more.”
“So, you know, often it’s like, hey, we don’t have enough employees and business is booming. We got to hire somebody really quick. And we really do our best to say, absolutely, no, you need to take your time, hire slow.
Be thoughtful about the questions you’re asking. Be thoughtful about how you’re doing the interview. Do two to three interviews, maybe one on the phone, maybe one on Zoom, maybe one in person before you make that decision.
And then having the employee handbook so that you’ve got this new relationship. You want to put, you know, your best foot forward, make sure they’re putting their best foot forward. And you’re taking all this time with the new hire orientation.”
“Let them job shadow, really put the time and energy up front. And then if it’s not working, ten days in, thirty days in, sixty days in, if it’s not working, what are you doing to let that employee know this is not working? And if it continues to not work, we’re going to have to end this employment relationship and fire quickly instead of now, you know, you got this employee like we should have fired them two years ago.
Well, you’re right, you should have.
And you’re saying fire fast, even faster than the sort of typical 90 days that we hear about, correct?
Yes. In fact, we tell people, do a 30, 60, 90 day review for new people. If somebody’s brand new, they don’t know, and you’re busy and they’re busy and you’re like, what, you’ve been here 30 days?
Yeah, how am I doing? Well, maybe I need to stop and take a look and go, you know, actually, we had some complaints. Maybe this isn’t the right fit.”
“But letting people know is the right thing to do for the employee and the employer, because even if somebody’s not the right fit, but you let them go thoughtfully and with respect, they are continuing to carry on your brand. You don’t want them bad mouthing you when they leave, right? So you need to let somebody know whether they’re doing a great job or they’re not, and you don’t want to wait six months or a year to do that.
Yeah, I always like to look at it like a coach would look at it. You’re not going to wait around for a few weeks before you tell someone that their form is off or they’re performing something wrong. Tell them really fast because this is not all bad news.
Maybe you could turn that person around quickly and they could be your superstars.”
“Yes, feedback, lots of feedback, immediate feedback in real time, whether it’s good or whether it’s bad. Let’s nip it in the bud right now or let’s encourage more of it, right?
Love that. Last question I had for you is, do you work with organizations, and this might really be a big thing for franchisers, do you work with organizations that are not based in California, but maybe they have employees living in California remotely or working for some other department or something like that?
Yes, we do. Our last look, about 20 percent of the people we worked with had businesses outside of California, but because they didn’t understand California, that’s why they joined us and became a member of CEA. You don’t have to work with us and be a member, but we have a lot of members that do.
We can help you with all of your California questions. Maybe you’re based in Florida, or Michigan, or Wisconsin, or Wyoming, but if you have a California employee, you need to know California law.”
“Yeah, especially if it’s a great employee or potentially great employee, because there’s sort of this mindset with some companies out there like, I don’t know, do we really want to bring in someone from California? And the answer should be yes, because there’s so much talent here.
Right.
Right.
Right.
If they just had someone to help navigate a few of those rules.
That’s right. And they can have a handbook that maybe all, maybe 80% of their workforce is all in Florida and 20% is in California. They can have separate handbooks for those employees based upon those different states.
Or they can make everybody conform to California.
But that’s what I see happening too with some brands that I’m working with, where they’re actually looking at some rules from places like California and a few other states and applying those to the rest of the company, knowing that sometime in the next few years, we’re probably, you know, it’s like a domino effect. We’re all going to fall at some point.”
“California will set the standard, but eventually everyone’s going to follow suit. It just takes longer, but I agree with you. We do say if you can conform to California Employment Law, the rest of the states are easy.
If you can make it there, you can make it anywhere.
I like it.
Okay, Kim, give me some data and information on where people should reach out to you if they have questions, they’d like to work with you and your group. Where can we send those folks?
We would love to have them come visit our website, which is employers.org, that’s plural, or they can just call us directly 800-399-5331. We also have an Instagram account, LinkedIn, Facebook, but just look for californiaemployers.org, 800-399-5331.”
“Very good. Thank you so much for joining us, and thanks for being here at Franchise Expo West. It’s always great to have some more thought leaders and some more people bringing new ideas into franchising, so we appreciate that.
Thanks for having us.
Thanks again to all of today’s guests for sharing their stories and trends for this fall. Thanks also to today’s sponsors, Hughes, Northeast Color, Citrin Cooperman, and Thunderly. And thank you for listening, telling a friend about us, and staying connected on the Social Geek Radio Network.”